Incentive Travel Amid Uncertainty: Navigating New Horizons

In this episode of Travel Buddy, Lisa Grimaldi, editor at Northstar Meetings Group, joins Switchfly's Director of Sales, Ashley Martinez, to explore how incentive travel is evolving in a world where plans can change quickly.

From shifting traveler expectations and new approaches to risk management to the growing demand for flexibility, protection, and more personalized experiences, the conversation looks at what today’s travel landscape means for both program planners and individual travelers.

Drawing on new industry research, real-world examples, and firsthand travel experiences, Lisa and Ashley share what organizations are doing differently and why uncertainty doesn’t have to put rewarding travel experiences on hold.

Tune in for a timely conversation on navigating change, planning with greater confidence, and continuing to create memorable trips that inspire people to get out and explore.

[00:00:00] Welcome to Travel Buddy, presented by Switchfly. In this podcast, we talk about all things travel, rewards, and loyalty. Let's get to it. 

Brandon Giella: back to another episode of Travel Buddy, presented by Switchfly. We have special guest today, Lisa Grimaldi, here to talk to us about incentive travel in a world of uncertainty. why are you here? Who are you? What's going on?

lisa: Nice to be here. Thanks, Brendan. I am an editor f- at North Star Meetings Group. I am editor of "Incentive," which is a magazine/brand, which focuses specifically on incentive, rewards travel. If people aren't familiar with it, it's the rewards,like a trip you could win, for achieving a goal or, you know, meeting a certain, company criteria.

There's a lot of different reasons people get to go on these trips, but it's, it's essentially a reward

Brandon Giella: Awesome. And you have done [00:01:00] some fantastic research, through some surveys and presentations recently that we will get into that is driving the content of this episode. But first, we also have back on the show Ashley Martinez. Ashley, thank you for joining. Tell us about your, your side of the story here

Ashley Martinez: Thanks, Brandon. So happy to be here again, and I'm looking forward to this conversation from my perspective on individual and leisure travels, the parallels that we're seeing on the group side of things. So really excited to talk to Lisa about what she's seeing and all the latest travel trends

Brandon Giella: Thanks, guys. All right. So let's jump into what this research is telling us. So Lisa, you gave a presentation recently after, running a survey amongst your folks, and there was a big headline that I'd like to unpack here. So tell us about what did you find? What, what is your, your take on incentive travel in a world of uncertainty?

lisa: Well, I'll give a little background. We do a survey twice a year, and it's called the North Star Cvent Incentive [00:02:00] Survey, and it's a pulse survey. And basically, we talk to a bunch of planners, it's all done online, and get their take on what's happening in the industry and their programs. And we compare, from spring to fall, year to year.

There's a lot of different, ways that we dice it up, dice up... It's our fifth year of doing it, so we have a lot to, to really compare. But the big takeaway, both this spring and the previous spring, which I didn't see too much difference, is that global risk and concern over geopolitics and how that's affecting programs and where people can go, where planners are choosing, destinations, etc.

Brandon Giella: Okay. I wanna get into some of the, the risks that you have identified. So there's the political risk, economic risk, social risks, and even budgets, that budgets now are kind of up in the air, and it's changing the way that people are designing their programs and [00:03:00] thinking about their trips. And so, so what was the big finding that you, that you are thinking about here?

Was there, like, a big number that stood out to you?

lisa: I think it was close to 70% of people were concerned about what's going on in the world. and again, we're not super specific. We do ask questions that are open-ended, and we allow people to write in specifics, in certain areas. But yeah, in general, that was the number one concern, which is really one of the first times we've seen that.

It, it went ahead of m- of cost, which cost is always a big concern. You know, let's not fool ourselves, but th- that is. But yeah, there's... And just the s- uncertainty right now. There's tariffs, there's, you know, political concerns. There's concerns of people coming into the country, people going out. you know, what, what's safe, because that's sort of a move...

I hate to use the word target, but it's a moving target

Brandon Giella: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's, [00:04:00] it's on a lot of different fronts. It's not here, you know, obviously just in the US, it's in Europe, Africa, Asia. It's, it's kind of an, a global risk landscape, if you will. But there's also a lot of different like vectors, like I said, like there's social and political and economics and all that.

are there some ways that you're thinking about maybe categorizing the ways that,folks might be kind of feeling in the, the current climate of when they're designing their programs or thinking about these trips? Like how do you guys,

lisa: We do ask sentiment.

Brandon Giella: Yeah.

lisa: do, we do ask sentiment. And sentiment was lower in the spring than it was in the fall, when optimism was a little higher. And it, it's a general question, you know, like, "What's your optimism about the industry or incentive travel?" and we're not the only ones that, that ask that.

there's a big, survey that the industry does between the... It's called the In- Incentive Travel Index. That's also done by-- It's much larger than ours, but it's done by, SITE and the-- which is the Society for Incentive Travel Excellence and the [00:05:00] Incentive Research Foundation, the two biggest groups, really that represent our industry.

And their finding was very similar

Brandon Giella: You're, you-- Before we started recording, you mentioned there's a new certificate that's come out to kind of address this topic because it is such a, a pressing need for a lot of folks right now. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

lisa: Yeah, sure. the Society for Incentive Travel Excele- Excellence, which I will hereforward refer to as SITE 'cause it's a mouthful, they have just launched a couple of certificates, for their members to get specialized in, and one of them was risk management, which is, you know, as we're discussing now, it's always been an issue, always.

But I think it, it, the world is just changing fast, and I think it was, there was definitely a renewed interest. I wouldn't say specifically for this reason that SITE came up with this, but in general in the meetings industry, I noticed after, what happened at, at the, Correspondents' [00:06:00] Dinner in Washington, DC.

there was... I don't know if, if it's obvious to people what that was, but that was when, the whole admin presi- president and the administration was at this dinner, and a gunman got in. So that really sort of shook up the meetings industry in general. I think the fact that the, the SITE is offering this certificate is, like I said, not tied to that, but just in general, there's a lot of r- renewed interest in risk management and security, making sure, you know, they're picking the right destinations, ke- picking places where they can keep their people safe, and also having a security plan

Brandon Giella: That's a lot. That's a lot when you're just trying to travel somewhere. Ashley, I want, I wanna dive into that a little bit more about how folks are, you know, kinda changing the, the way that they're putting these packages together and things like that. But Ashley, on the individual side of, travel, incentive travel, are you seeing [00:07:00] anything that is related to some of this risk or anything to, to weigh in on here?

Ashley Martinez: Yeah, Brandon, we're definitely seeing an uptick in insurance, in

Brandon Giella: Hmm.

Ashley Martinez: adding travel protection to their trips to give them added, you know, added peace of mind, a sense of flexibility. Typically, about 50% of bookings will have travel insurance added to it, and that's why through Switchfly we made it such a, real initiative to add flexibility through travel protection through our, through our provider, Battleface. As people really want in, especially with a large investment like travel, to be able to feel protected in the case of emergency, if I need to change, you know, I have those, insurances in place. And I think that's specific to the US. If you think about in the EU and some of these other markets, just because of natural or, government regulations, they already have some travel protections in place, whereas the US, we, don't have, have as strict regulation.

So adding travel insurance is something that I [00:08:00] always, through my own travel a- advisory, always recommend. But we're definitely seeing people wanting that type of protection and peace of mind.

Brandon Giella: Interesting, interesting. Yeah, just trying to find any way to provide some more certainty or more calm, more peace as you're trying to travel around the world.

Ashley Martinez: Absolutely

Brandon Giella: Okay. Lisa, I wanna get more from you on how, folks are, how these programs might be adapting. You know, you mentioned, you know, thinking about security details, things like that.

But, is there a way that you're seeing, you know, in the face of some of these risks, some of the uncertainty that folks might be facing, how they're, you know, planning different programs or different lengths of programs or different sizes? You mentioned budgets earlier, that that's, that's changing the way that people are thinking about their, their trips.

But, yeah, what's, what is, like, the, kind of, implications of all this coming down in, in reality?

lisa: Yeah, good question, Brandon. I would say that one of the things, is for multi-co- countries that are international, [00:09:00] what they're doing, it-- we're seeing a lot of this, is breaking up, the groups. Like, they used to probably bring everybody all together, try to make it all one trip. There's less of that.

It's much more regional now. Like, say, the Europeans stay in Europe, the North Americans stay in North America, Latin Americans stay in Latin America, Asians stay in Asia. You know, there's a lot, you know, there's certainly plenty of incentive destinations, like, within everybody's region, but they're, they are doing that.

it's just, I think it's just less c- stressful for everybody. And, you know, also there's flight... We, we're not even talking about flight issues . I mean, there's, there were a lot of flight, cancellations. There's, the... In Europe, there was the shortage of, jet fuel that happened, for-- and might still be happening with what's going on, with the Iran war.

so there's so many different factors to consider. Also, there were visa issues. people were, are [00:10:00] concerned coming into the US, say, bringing them here. I actually had somebody write in that they had, they, they would not hold their event in the US because, and this was a North American-based, incentive planner, because they were concerned.

They had people from outside who were very concerned about going through customs here, and it was a very real concern. h-hey, for North Americans getting into Europe, it's getting harder. I mean, there's the whole Schengen, issue, and there's new visas there. It's, it's, it's becoming a little... It's not as easy and fluid as it once was.

Brandon Giella: Seems like a, I'm sad about this. You know, I used to love to travel so much. I would think about going to different places. You know, we've talked so much on this ep- on this podcast about traveling all over the world, and now to think that this could be a lot harder, more complicated, especially when I'm thinking about my kids coming up and traveling and seeing the world.

You know, it's just harder for them. It's just, it's sad

lisa: I think honestly, [00:11:00] everybody loves to travel, and these people are getting rewards, and it's gotta be someplace special. And, you know, like we said before, what, what's safe is, is always changing, so I don't think it's forever. These-- It's just a little harder with, you know, these different visas and regulations and geopolitics, but that too can change.

Brandon Giella: Mm. That's right. That's right. tell me, tell me a little bit more about, some of the research that you conducted, some other stats that stood out or, or different, you know, elements of the research or the survey or any of the presentations that you've been giving that, that you think listeners should know

lisa: Budgets, we'll get back to that because, of course, that's, again, always a big thing. budgets are also affecting the size of groups. They're getting smaller. the length might be shortened, maybe like four night, three, three nights, four days, rather than the standard five days, four nights. onsite gifting is [00:12:00] one of the first things they say that they're cut, they cut budgets on when it gets a little tight, which is interesting 'cause gifting is a big part of these trips.

also, I would say their entertainment was another thing they were cutting back on. And giving... And this is interesting, and it sort of go, it sort of works in, planners' favors. They're giving more free time. People want more free time, so it's not a bad thing. But rather than having structured, you know, every second filled up with activities or tours and things like that, you know, people...

They might offer them, and it's up to people if they wanna do it or not. But yeah, free time is really something that the participants are valuing these days. And they usually are allowed to bring a guest that... You know, formerly it was always a spouse, but now people can bring partners, they can bring a friend, they can bring a child, you know, an adult child.

Usually they don't like young, youngins, unless it's a family incentive. you could even bring a parent, [00:13:00] so

Brandon Giella: That's, that's great. This sounds like a win-win actually. You know, it's a little bit shorter trip. Maybe the trip itself is a gift, and so you're okay with that. But I get more free time out of the deal. It's like, maybe it's not so bad maybe. I like that. one question I wanted to ask you was, thinking about the actual planner's role, how, how is that, how is risk management becoming like a larger, you know, remit for them?

Like, i-is it that they're having to develop skills in this area, or is this something traditionally that a lot of planners are familiar with and now it's just kinda escalating? Or is this kind of like a new, you know, something more that they need to be thinking about when they're putting trips together?

lisa: I don't think it's more, it's just maybe a little more focus on it now. I would say that planners of, corporations often have their own security, people who do the background checks, and they may even accompany the group. So in some cases it's that. A lot of times they'll work with their on-the-ground partners, and that could [00:14:00] be a destination management company or it could be a convention bureau or, also known, like a tourist office, or they're also c- known as destination management organizations.

Those partners are very valuable. They can certainly steer them away from things that they think are inappropriate, perhaps give them insight into security issues, that they may not be aware of. so I-- Also, the, the, another issue when Ashley was mentioning this, I was thinking about this, their contracts are getting tighter.

You know? They re- you really have to contract well and make sure that... Well, if you need to cancel, and very few are canceling, but if-- I do know of one company that was supposed to meet in the, in, Dubai, and this was right after, I, I guess it was February when we had, first had, the war first started in, the Gulf there.

[00:15:00] yeah. What happened was they, they called in their, they had a contract with a, a big, hotel company. What they did was they called their partners. it was, they honored their contract. They moved the program, I believe, to someplace in Europe. I don't know. I don't remember the specifics, but they didn't have a problem.

But you know, it was part of their partnership with the hotel indus- with the hotel chain a- and also, with their contract

Brandon Giella: So yeah, make sure, whatever you're about to change you have in writing or not in writing to

lisa: Oh yes, super important

Brandon Giella: Yeah. Ashley, for you, when, thinking about individual, you know, planners or what you're hearing in the advisory group or, you know, through Switchfly's data, is there, different ways people are thinking about their trips as well?

Like you mentioned obviously like adding more insurance, but when they're planning the actual trip and thinking through that and their risk management, how are you seeing, different things change on that side?[00:16:00] 

Ashley Martinez: Yeah, for me personally, I'm, I'm actually planning my honeymoon right now,

Brandon Giella: Oh gosh, yeah

Ashley Martinez: and we wanna go to Turkey. But just given the political situation and the dynamics of the world, you know, I've booked all refundable rates of airfare, hotels, things that I could have flexibility if I need to. I think on the leisure and incentive side, from an American point of view or US-centric, Americans have really changed.

Instead of going abroad, they're really looking for more localized regional trips, as Lisa was describing. And I think, but the underlying, idea behind travel, right, is still there. It doesn't matter what the destination is, you still have that inspiration and aspiration. So that's consistent a- across destinations.

And I think the role of a travel planner or a group incentive planner is really to educate your, your customers or your travelers of the risks, obviously, of the rewards, and then have a pulse on what's going on. but this, you know, that's really their job, and this is consistent. This [00:17:00] isn't new, obviously, in any, any time.

So I would say it's not something to be worried about. Obviously, just to have a pulse on and understand it might shift in the short term where those destinations are. But the heart of travel is going to remain and it is consistent. And so people are still traveling. it just may be they're a little more intentional about, like I said, with my own, trip, maybe I'm pri-- I'm getting a little more expensive rate to make it refundable just so I'm more proactive in, in the event that, we need to make a change

Brandon Giella: Sounds like traveling is more expensive now. Gotta get the, you gotta get the premium refundable option.

Ashley Martinez: You, well, you need to listen to our episodes about points and how you can use your

Brandon Giella: That's true. That's true. That's true.

Ashley Martinez: Yeah

Brandon Giella: Lisa, I wanna see if you comment on that. do you agree that the underlying, you know, premise behind travel for, on the program side is still there? Are people just more, a little bit more cautious? Like, what's your, what's your take on that?

lisa: I, I don't think so. I, I think the appeal of travel [00:18:00] and this kind of travel, because it's, it's what incentive travel aims to be is something that people can't recreate on their own. So these trips are very special and very unique. I don't think people are looking to cancel. I do know of a cer- a few certain, circumstances where if there, people are concerned about traveling at that time or to that destination, that they are being offered an individual certificate to travel.

could be to the s- usually to the same place, or could be someplace else, but it's still a reward, but it's something that appeals more to their individual preferences, because personalization is also a very important part of, incentive programs, too. Nobody wants to force anybody to do things they don't wanna do.

It's a reward

Brandon Giella: Makes sense. Yeah, I, I feel like I still wanna go, you know? Maybe, I don't... Maybe not with the group, but I wanna go. what, what else in your research, I'll kind of open up the floor a little [00:19:00] bit. Is there anything else in your research or in the survey or the, the presentations or work you've been doing that you think listeners ought to know when thinking about risk management?

lisa: I think communication is something that we haven't mentioned, but that's super important. I think as long as the planner, comp- you know, the sponsor, the program organizer, because it's, it's a whole group. You know, sometimes the planner's a third party and not even part of the organization. But keeping communication open, during leading up to the program.

you know, if there's any changes or any concerns, just ta- taking that into consideration and being flexible, you know? And knowing that, yeah, things happen, but- It passes. I mean, it's not, I ha- I'm not seeing anything like what, what we saw during COVID where people were canceling programs outright. That, that's a very different scenario.

And a lot of those [00:20:00] programs were postponed. I don't even see postponements right now

Brandon Giella: Is that the, the case also for, for the travelers themselves to keep open communication if they have questions or whatever? I'm sure they can route those up through the system,

lisa: Of course, of course. They wanna know, yeah. Yes, yes, their concerns, you know, everything. Both two w- you know, both ways, both ways, yeah

Brandon Giella: yeah. Well, I wanna, more personally, what are you guys looking forward to in, with your, your group, with SITE and some of the work that you're doing?

What are you guys looking forward to, this year or this next quarter throughout 2026? Any kind of forward-looking advice or, the way you're thinking about things in the future?

lisa: I think that people are looking forward to maybe, maybe, maybe a little less, political volatility. Although it's a little hard to say with the Canadian tariffs that keep changing because

Brandon Giella: Yes

lisa: I mentioned beforehand, before we got on air, that, Canada was just [00:21:00] very happy saying that they're welcoming back US groups.

And that was meetings and events in general. It wasn't specifically incentives. And maybe now that... Yeah, it, you know, it's just, it, it's volatile and, it would make people look and say, "Well, maybe I won't think about that now." But on the other hand, I do know, me personally, I will be going to the SITE conference in Vancouver, which is early 2027.

So they're not pulling back.

Brandon Giella: Let's hope that you guys can go and that the tariffs won't be 50% more on the ticket prices.

lisa: I'm sure it'll change a number of times between now and then.

Brandon Giella: You never know. You never know. where are you traveling next that you're most excited about?

lisa: I am traveling next to... Well, I'm gonna be going to Las Vegas for IMEX, which is a very big industry travel trade show, for the meetings and incentive industry, and that's in Vegas every [00:22:00] October, so I'll be going there. but I've been to Vegas and, you know, it, it, it's, it's a lovely place. But what I'm really excited about is North Star, our own event, we're holding, that we hold every year, it's called the Global Incentive Summit, and every year we go someplace exciting and new, and, we bring planners with us, and we have suppliers, and they meet, and they get to see all about a destination.

So last year it was Budapest, and this year it's Madrid, and I have not been to Madrid in, mm, I hate to say how many years. Oh, it's decades at this point.

Brandon Giella: Well, that's, you got one up on me. I've actually never been to any of those places that you mentioned, Budapest, Madrid, or Las Vegas, so I feel like I have some more places to tick

lisa: Oh, you're missing out, Brandon. Come on

Brandon Giella: know, I know. Ashley, what about you? anything to look forward to this quarter? I know, well, honeymoon obviously is, is on the list, but anything you guys are working on as well?[00:23:00] 

Ashley Martinez: I am going to Brazil in a couple weeks. That's gonna be a new one for me, so I'm very excited about. And I'm also going to be taking my mom to Korea.

Brandon Giella: wow

Ashley Martinez: yeah, we are in lieu of the wedding doing all kinds of skincare prep. It was, and

Brandon Giella: Yes.

Ashley Martinez: travel is a big trend that we're seeing, so I am following along.

so I'll be taking my mom to Korea. So I'm, I'm excited about those two. But Madrid's one of my favorite cities, Lisa. I'm very excited to see what, what comes out of the, the North Star event

lisa: I'll follow up with you for some tips

Ashley Martinez: Yeah,

Brandon Giella: great. That's great. right, anything else before we wrap up? Thank you so much for, for all of your insight, but any other commentary on your research or anything else you'd like people to know?

lisa: People should keep traveling, you know? There's, there's always a new place to discover and, you know, variety is the spice of life, so, you know. What, like I said before, what may be in vogue or may seem a little, [00:24:00] a little risky now, a year from now it could be a completely different story. So just keep your eyes open and, you know, think about where people might wanna go and what will inspire them.

That's the main thing.

Brandon Giella: So maybe the takeaway is the future is uncertain, but keep going anyway I love it. Well, Lisa, thank you so much for your time, for being on the show. We're so excited to have you. And Ashley, it's great to see you, and good luck on your travels in the near future

lisa: Great to see both of you

Brandon Giella: Thanks guys. See you next time