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Introduction
Transcript
Welcome to Travel Buddy, presented by Switchfly. In this podcast, we talk about all things travel, rewards, and loyalty. Let's get to it.
Brandon Giella: Welcome back to another episode of Travel Buddy, and today we are gonna be talking about the cardholder trust chain. is a mouthful, and I'm gonna mess that up. But, this is where we're talking about rewards travel, and the trust that an institution is building into the cardholder, and the overall loyalty program, and the implications of potentially breaking that trust. And I have a short story here before I let Rachel and Ian jump in. And the short story is, many years ago, a good friend of mine was a consultant, and built up over many, many years a, a great loyalty status in his program at a major institution. He described to me one time, like one of the major regrets of his life is that he did not, diversify his loyalty points usage because he felt that that institution eventually debased the value of his points, and they kept moving the goalposts out further so that he no longer really had that status that was once promised to him. And as a result of him telling that story, it made an impact on me and what card I chose or what program I invested in, because I wanted to feel like if I'm gonna be loyal to a program, I want them to honor that promise that they made to me, even if it's a twenty or thirty-year-old promise. I know that is very high stakes, but I, I tell that story because it does make a difference what we communicate to cardholders within a loyalty program, even if it's over a long, know, time horizon. The challenge, though, is that there are many steps in this chain, many links in the chain that Rachel will walk us through. But to the cardholder's perspective, they don't know all the, the, the complexity and the layers and the links in this chain. They just know the institution, where they have that loyalty program. So, for example, I'm an American Express Platinum cardholder, and I ha-- if I have a problem booking, redeeming, whatever it is, I don't know all the, the technical complexity behind that. If I have a problem with that, to me, it's American Express's fault, and I'm gonna call their customer support number, and I'm gonna deal with them. So far, they've been lovely, and I've been a cardholder for many years, and I plan to continue. But, but it just goes to show when I'm, you know, as a cardholder looking at these loyalty programs, I don't know all these, these chains, the, the, the links in the chain. I don't know the complexity, and the promise that is made to me comes from my card, my loyalty program, regardless of all the other pieces that are in there. And the stakes, again, are high, and I know it's complex, and it can take a, a long time to build trust, to keep the trust. it's very hard to do, but we wanna talk about that today. And so Rachel is gonna guide us through, the, some of the work that she's been doing on understanding that chain and trying to help, loyalty leaders think through it themselves to build that trust. So Rachel, tell us a little bit about what you've got going on with this program and this topic and why you're thinking about it.
Rachel Satow: Yeah, absolutely. So to your point, cardholders can spend months, years, in your friend's case, decades earning points, and redemption is when they find out whether or not the value they were promised works for the reward that they want to … the trip they want to take, the reward they want to redeem. So a cardholder is really asking the question, "Does the value my organization, my card promised me actually work when I need it most?" And When it comes to the redemption process, to your point, they see one branded experience. They don't know which com- they probably don't know. They might if they're a you or a me who are working on the back end of this all the time, but they see one branded experience, and they don't know which company manages the booking, manages the points, where the inventory's coming from, who's, who's handling support. They don't know those things, and they shouldn't have to figure out when something goes wrong, who's the finger at, you know? to your point, they, the Amex, they know the Visa, they know who their cardholder provider is. They don't know all of the things that go into the back end, and they shouldn't. So the cardholder trust chain, we recently put out a guide about this. it goes very in-depth into all of the different stages that are a part of this trust chain. and it also talks about ways to navigate the individual stages if trust begins to falter at one of them. so the, the core stages are the promise, transaction, ful-fulfillment, recovery, and closure, and then it-- the closure is supported by governance. And it really does start with the promise, and that is during search. So the points value, the cash amount, the total, you know, the total price, inventory availability, cancellation, works of their pro- like the search. We're gonna use travel specifically because that's what Switchfly knows, knows best. but all of these things can come into play during this promise stage, and, know, prices and inventory change all the time for travel in particular. It is super volatile. It's, you know, you may be searching something five minutes ago that is different than what is available now. and the important thing here is to just make sure that, there is a system in place to make sure that inventory in particular, and pricing in particular, is as up-to-date as it possibly can be. Because the last thing you want to do is when somebody is in the search phase and they are seeing a specific top-up value, and then they get to the transaction phase, and they see at checkout a different cash amount that is going to be required than when they were searching, that right there, the, in between those two stages, is a spot where Trust can just completely falter if they no longer will trust that what they were searching for is accurate. so it really can just come down to, like, something as simple as, like, a click into checkout that makes the trust falter. and then the other side of it is really that fulfillment. So I'm just giving brief, brief definitions here, but, the confirmation, and for travel, you getting a confirmation email is not the end of the trust experience. It's not the end of the chain. If a flight gets canceled, or they miss it, or, something goes wrong, the, the, the support team, a support team needs to have that current information. And to your point when you said, you know, you were going to call up, Amex, also needs to be ownership and accountability because financial services loyalty programs are built so modularly. Like, you probably have a different provider for k- you know, your gift cards or your travel, etc. You're not working with one single supplier on those sides. So if they don't know who to call, like, during the fulfillment when, especially when something goes wrong, that obliterates trust in the organization, not in the provider of the reward. And I think that's a really big thing that when we're looking at the trust chain- Financial services need to recognize that while internally you know that it's XYZ's responsibility to manage this inventory or to provide the support, but your cardholders don't. They don't know that, you know, someone else is responsible for your branded experience. And when s- things start to fall apart, especially in that high-tension time, like they know that they booked it through their rewards program and your brand is the person that they are going to reach out to, and your brand is the person that they are going to blame. and then obviously recovery come, becomes a big part of that. Recovery is, you know, when something is going wrong, how can I ensure that I know who owns what the next step is? How can I ensure that even if I get a support ticket number, like I know who I'm talking to and I can put a name to someone who is helping me figure out something. So even if that fix takes time, ensuring that there's a clear owner and someone who is r- like a reliable point for your travelers can give confidence in a time when your trust is most likely to falter. then obviously closure. because a booking is completed or canceled, there may still be that like cash refund or, some sort of points reversal that comes into play. You have to reconcile that across all of your, your suppliers and all of, all of the different points in the chain, all of the different modular points in the chain. and the c- the cardholder just needs to know like which steps are being done and who they're being done by, and which steps are, are in progress. And communication obviously is a huge aspect there to ensure that trust is, is retained. and then just telling like, you know, just telling someone that their, their case is resolved when their points still haven't been added back on Like, to them, that's not resolved. That's like, "Wait a sec, you can't close this out. I still don't see my points back into my, into my program," so. and then obviously that closure is supported heavily by governs- governance. this really is kind of like the overarching stage because it comes into play in all of the other stages, but it's, it's the ownership that the, and the responsibility that the financial organization takes on even having a loyalty program or having rewards. It's, they don't have to perform every single step themselves. You don't have to be the, you know, person managing the supply and the inventory. You don't have to be the points bank owner. You don't have to be all of the, you know, the merchant record, etc. But you do need to know who handles what and who to go to when the chain starts to falter, and be able to set rules and regulations for your own program and expectations on how those individuals and those different, you know, partners that you have your trust chain. so it's, it's so far beyond, you know, are running, inventory's there, so on and so forth. It's how are problems being solved, how are they being caught before cardholders even experience them, and then how are, you know, the different organizations working together. And with that, that is, like, the longest overview that I possibly could have given. But, obviously this guide, I, I spent a lot of time on that guide, so I, this, I'm living and breathing this at this point
Brandon Giella: No, I love it. I love it. I'm gonna, I'm gonna harken back to y-your CEO, Noel Outlaw, saying, "This stuff is complex. This is hard." You know building your own program and, and, you know, stitching all the vendors together, all the suppliers, doing the training, the currencies, you know. Like, this is, this is really hard. so yeah. So, there are a lot of moving parts to this. if you're, you're building out, you know, a program or you're trying to, you know, create this, this, the vendor network and all that, but each of those points from the cardholder's perspective, this is I think what you're trying to get across, like really clearly is, from the cardholder's perspective, they have no idea what is going on behind the scenes with all this stuff. They have one person, one point of contact, one experience, and it is up to the loyalty program, the financial institution to make all of those pieces work seamlessly together so that they have a delightful experience. Easier said than done, but that's the goal
Ian Andersen: I think something that, companies don't necessarily think about, although I'm sure major financial institutions do. but, but a lot of companies, I, I don't always know how much they consider they are essentially creating a new currency, right? it's the same as the dollar or the peso or the euro or, or whatever. obviously there are different regulations for it, but, like, you're creating something that has a specific value that is transactionable for, other goods and services, right? and because of that, it's, it's subject to all the real world rules and immutable laws that other currencies are. And, After the pandemic, I think a lot of companies got a really sharp lesson in economics, by, how volatile, you know, the economy was in general worldwide. that, that affects your, your rewards plan, right? It affects those, those points values. It, it affects all those things. And, and depending on how that's portrayed to customers, you know, if they're … If you've been setting them up with certain expectations for, you know, however long, and then something happens and your, your loyalty points are, are devalued, that's gonna cause a lot of friction, right? The, the, Consumer Protection Bureau, Financial Protection Bureau saw, like, between 12 and 1500% increases in complaints over rewards programs, post-pandemic year, year over year. they, there were a lot of people caught off guard, thinking, you know, "Yes, the dollar is not doing great. Inflation's going a little wild. you know, maybe I can offset some of that by using some of my stored up points," not necessarily knowing that those have also been devalued, you know? it's, it's incumbent upon, the, the program that the … I mean, exactly what, what you two are both saying as far as who's the owner. You know, it doesn't necessarily matter whose, quote-unquote, fault it is or, or what's going on behind the scenes. If you're the owner and you're the face, the, the customer's, gonna come to you. and it's incumbent upon those, those programs to understand what's going on, to understand the customer's expectations and why they may or may not have been met, and, to be able to, to communicate effectively. you know, at the end of the day, it all comes down to, to customer communication, right? So
Brandon Giella: Yeah, I think a lot of, programs are, are currently going through that now with lounge access, which is a topic of discussion, amongst, you know, avid travelers of premium cards. Not saying that I'm in that discussion, but your institution will be mentioned on Reddit if you decide at one point to, say that you can no longer bring guests into your lounge because you're debasing the value of that premium cardholder
Ian Andersen: Yeah.
Brandon Giella: things like that. Even that's a simple thing, but it shows up in the real world and has
Ian Andersen: And and
Brandon Giella: as,
Ian Andersen: that,
Brandon Giella: of
Ian Andersen: those like, one sure way to, to damage trust are those little, like, hidden caveats, you know, that, are sort of buried in fine print at times. Like, I won't mention the company, but a major airline that, I had built up enough to, to get sort of lounge access stuff. I didn't know you had to have a ticket. I, I knew you had to have a ticket on that airline for that day, but, I had flown on them in the morning, had a little layover, and was flying a different airline that afternoon, and they said that didn't count, that, that my afternoon flight had to have been on, on that airline. And I was, I was pissed. I was like, "It doesn't actually say that." Like,
Brandon Giella: Yep.
Ian Andersen: you know, it says you need to have a ticket that day, right? And, yeah, so just little stuff like that
Brandon Giella: yeah, I, I went to a major airline where I had the ticket to that airline, and on my app it said I had access to this lounge. And it was like, "Access granted. You can go between these hours," whatever. I got to the thing and they're like, "Oh, you're not a certain member of this particular very narrow exclusive thing for this lounge." Even though the brand, you know, the, the airline's logo was above the, the, the, the l- the th- the door, they wouldn't let me in. And I'm like, "No, no, no, I've got access on my app. I've got the ticket to the airline. Like, I'm-- I should be good to go." And they're like, "No, you don't have this particular, access or whatever." And I was like, "Okay.
Ian Andersen: like, that's like, you know, getting McDonald's points or something in Buffalo and then going to Tampa and them saying, "No, you can't use your McDonald's points here at the Tampa locate," right? Like that, that kind of stuff corporate-wide, you build up those expectations, and if you don't honor it or if you're not explicit about how and when those things can be honored,
Brandon Giella: Yeah
Ian Andersen: you know, w- there's no faster way to, to destroy trust with, with your customers
Brandon Giella: And as marketers, we have to know nobody's gonna read those terms and conditions. Make it,
Ian Andersen: Okay.
Brandon Giella: it really clear, you know?
Ian Andersen: Yeah
Rachel Satow: yeah, i-i think the, the way to say it is, like, just make sure that you're making a promise that you can keep, because no one is going to be faster to call you out on something that isn't clear than someone who is trying to utilize your program, and some that- someone that had trust in your program. so, like, to Ian's point, communication is vital, one, but also clarity and being, like, extremely explicit, because, like, they're, they are making a financial decision, you know? Like, to, to Ian's point, you are essentially creating another type of currency for them, and those cardholders, like, they're making a financial decision when they're r- redeeming through you. So, if things are not clear or things change in the entire redemption process, and there isn't a, an explicit reason why, that can just destroy your, destroy the trust that they have in you. And one of the bigger problems is financial services loyalty programs are, we, we use the phrase "the sea of sameness," quite frequently. They're in, like, to your point, your friend's story is the reason you went with a different, a, a different, organization. Like, there's r- it's really hard to cultivate trust, in these, in these instances and with these organizations, and, the trust chain c- when it falters, it gives them every reason to just jump ship to somewhere else and try better, try something better, or at least in the hopes that something is better. but also, Ian, you were talking about the example of devaluation. Loyalty360 did an article a couple of months ago on, on devaluation, and they also reiterated across the board, like, communication at every single stage is vital. I think to circle it back and to, to harken back to the point of the trust chain is you need to know who is communicating with the cardholder and who is the responsible party, because not always going to be the, the, the provider. It is not always going to be your organization that owns it. In some cases, it might be, but you might not be doing all of the little things, so you need to know who is communicating with your cardholder, at which stage in their entire redemption process and in the entire trust chain, and how they are communicating things. Because if someone else's version of clarity is different than your version of clarity or even the cardholder's version of clarity, that is another spot where trust can just, just falter, so.
Ian Andersen: Yeah, and I don't, I don't The, this came up, I feel, a lot in the kinda early, mid-2000-ish range of, especially when customer service, functions were starting to really heavily be farmed out to, to other countries, to, to groups in other countries, right? That there was, at times language barriers, at times kind of cultural difference issues that came up, that, you know, it, it really damaged a lot of people's perception of those brands. and that's not to say, as Rachel's repeated a few times, that's not to say you can't separate out some of those functions, as long as it, it doesn't feel disjointed to the customer, as long as it doesn't, as long as you are aware of what's going on in that. You know, if, if you farm your customer service out to, to somewhere in, you know, Bangladesh or, or something, like, you should have somebody there who's, like, familiar with their operations and how they, how they deal with things and, and how they respond to the, to your customers, right? 'Cause they could be saying literally anything and, and at the end of the day, you're the one holding the bag for any promises or any, you know, bad negative interactions or, or anything like that. So, I think, you know, kinda that, that the ability for us to have instant communications across the world, it helped globalize a lot of these issues that, we hadn't really seen before. And, you know, that it's just, it's all part of building that, that, customer's trust. And as Rachel, I'm sure, will repeat many, many times throughout the course of this, it is so hard to build and so easy to break. You know, especially when, like you say, what is one bank card versus another bank card, like, for travel rewards or whatever? I mean, yeah, there's gonna be some minor differences on the margins, but by and large, you know, it's, you're selling the same product and same rates, same, you know, everything, so. So how can you differ- differentiate yourself? One, by having positive, you know, customer loyalty program interactions throughout, throughout the process, right?
Brandon Giella: Yeah, a-and it's more than customer service. You know, I mean, I, you know, it's kind of like that, that old adage of it takes 30 years to build trust and 30 seconds to lose it. You know, it's, it, it is very much that. But the, the real challenge is that it's not just customer service, it's finance, setting good deal terms up front that are clear and understandable and profitable. And then it's marketing to communicate those things. It's engineering to build the plumbing to make that work. It's all the vendors and supplier networks that go into that and all their plumbing. And then there's training and rollout and promotion and then governance. I mean, it's a huge effort to do this very well. so, Rachel, I'm kind of curious, you know, maybe as we kind of, head toward a close, what, what are some maybe takeaways or things to be thinking about as a leader that really is stitching these things together and understands, y-you know, wanting to delight the customer and create loyalty and trust in that customer, knowing that customers don't care what the problem is or what really happened. That doesn't help them. They just want to be-- They just want to have a good experience. They want their issue resolved, and they want to go on with their day because they got other things to do. but by re-- And things are gonna break. Like, there's gonna, they're gonna have an issue. I, I have issues all the time traveling. but you can still rupture and repair, is what therapists talk about with relationships. You know? Like, there will be that rupture, but how do you repair it? How do you close that loop? And you have to do that across many departments, many vendors, many, you know, teams have to work together really well. What do you, what do you do?
Rachel Satow: Yeah. I mean Travel is inherently sticky in that, you are going to be-- you're-- something's going to go wrong. It's, I, you know, whether it's your gate gets changed last minute or, you know, a redemption doesn't c- like get de-deducted from, from your points value i-in the right way or, you know, your hotel doesn't have your booking, especially when you're dealing with, with packaging. because packaging is interesting in that you have multiple touch points and multiple areas of the journey that you are accounting for, and you're sending it out to the one, different suppliers, but also like the different endpoints, even though the, the cardholder sees one booking and they see one thing that came through. so my biggest, like the biggest thing is when you're thinking about this trust chain, just ensuring that information and ownership is with the cardholder, not in the different stages and the different, suppliers at each of those stages. So, you know, a, a change can come through to different parties at different times. And like an airline could, you know, update the flight before the portal gets updated, and the servicing agent may be able to see the booking and they-- but they have limited visibility into the points used for it, so on and so forth. Like there's a, a multitude of things that can happen, and a ch- like a small change or a small tweak doesn't necessarily catch up to all of the different pieces at the same time. And those, those differences super frustrating for a cardholder because receiving conflicting information. They're seeing something that updated first, and then this other person over here that they're actually having to deal with doesn't see that same, that same change. so one, that communication needs an owner. If schedules change, you know, who is responsible for updating the itiner-the itinerary? Who's responsible for, you know, communicating that to the cardholder? Who checks that the message arrived? So on and so forth. and then the other side of it is like support needs that relevant history, so they need to be able to have appropriate and, you know, the person helping should be able to see the full funnel and like should be able to see the booking, the payment, the points, etc. because if they can't, then they're trying to fix a problem without all of the background on what happened, and the cardholder should not have to reiterate or retell a story a bajillion times, because that alone creates such… Like they shouldn't have to do that. It's not their responsibility. So it's, it's important that from an overarching infrastructure standpoint, no matter who is handling each of the little pieces, you keep e- informa- information w-with the cardholder in the moment that they are in, not in the way your infrastructure can send things. Like, you need to be thinking about, the cardholder is going to experience dealing with a service agent prior to potentially checking their points balance, so perhaps we prioritize a change or, whatever else is needed going to that service agent prior to it… You know, you, you just need to work out the, the kinks in the funnel from that side. And
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Rachel Satow: does depend on where the traveler is, because, you know, an issue three months before departure and an issue during, well, like, when they're traveling, they need different paths, and they need different response paths. One may be able to have some, some of that, that time, whereas someone else, you know, who's actively traveling and is experiencing a current booking issue, they, they need some sort of way to, reconcile those things. and self-servicing can handle some of it, but, really I'm sure all of us have dealt with this. Like, when it comes to time-sensitive things, I'm picking up the phone. That's the
Brandon Giella: Yeah, 100%.
Rachel Satow: try to figure out the, figure this out and figure out the, like, where I'm supposed to go, etc. I'm go- I'm, yep, I'm going to either, either pick up the phone or, go through the chatbot, etc. So it's really important that the information moves with where the cardholder is and the way that their behaviors reflect, not, the easiest way to push information to your different connectors. I, I hope that answers your question.
Brandon Giella: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I, I love the point about it basically like data transparency. Between all the different people that are involved, can you tie all the, the transactions, if you will, the customer service notes, everything to one record, like an electronic medical record? Can I pull up that patient, that cardholder, and see all their doctor's visits and their medication and their history and their, all that information all in one place? 'Cause yeah, I had that experience two weeks ago where I had to explain my story to four different people over the case, over the span of a month. Some via email, I had to fill out a form, you know, I called, I tried the chatbot. I always try the chatbot. It just never can-- stuff, I guess, is more complicated than a chatbot can ever figure out, but you know, I, it, that rarely ever works for now. Yeah, one day I'm gonna just talk to Siri, and Siri's just gonna handle it. but yeah, I had, I had to like go through the rigmarole, and it really annoyed me. And I'm like trying to do… I, I, I understand this stuff is complicated. Like I, I get it. I, I, I get it. But, still, it's still very frustrating. So yeah, it's,
Ian Andersen: especially with large financial service organizations, right? Like I, I have, a bank that I, I like and have used for most of my adult life that handles my checking, savings, some insurance, some investing, like, you know, and it… And sometimes one, an issue can be sort of in the middle of those, right? And,
Brandon Giella: Yeah
Ian Andersen: having to jump between customer service sections is always a giant pain. Yeah, and the way, I think, I think by and large, people are, are pretty reasonable in that, you know, mistakes happen, there are issues, and, and not even mistakes. Sometimes, you know, just friction occurs and, and problems arise. Like, how, how you deal with that as an or- organization culturally, I think, creates a, a very big difference. if you give your, whether it's customer service or operations or marketing or whatever, you know, if you give your people some autonomy to make decisions to solve problems themselves, that honestly usually goes a long ways to, to satisfying customers. and, you know, and yeah, you might be out a little money here and there, but by and large, those repeated positive interactions are, are invaluable, right, to, to reputation of an organization.
Brandon Giella: Yeah. And of course, m- most people do wanna resolve it themselves 'cause they can do it anytime they want. They don't have
Rachel Satow: Yeah
Brandon Giella: to Monday, you
Ian Andersen: Exactly
Brandon Giella: Monday to Friday, 9:00 to 5:00 when they're working and got other things going on, picking up the kids or whatever. Yeah, I'd rather do it online, but I can't. and this is where, of course, Adam Smith's, specialization argument comes to die. But eventually, you know, you just need to call somebody and get somebody to sort it out for
Ian Andersen: Yep
Brandon Giella: you know? Anyway
Rachel Satow: Yeah. And, and, you know, I, I know I mentioned this before, but it- we're not saying it's the responsibility of the financial institution or organization to, to manage all of the nitty-gritty points, you know? We're not saying that because the trust is going to affect your brand value, you need to, to be micromanaging all of these things. It's really your role to govern the trust chain and not every single link in that chain, right? So, I think that's if I were to say what is a next step for financial institutions, like try to document the current process and try to document who owns what. And if you don't have an answer to something, that's where your cardholders are going to feel it. y- it's not your responsibility to build every capability. It's not your responsibility to own everything internally. But just know that it is your responsibility to be able to document and to be able to create an operating model that showcases where responsibili- re- responsibilities lay and where things can fall through the cracks in the chain. So that is your responsibility, for sure
Brandon Giella: a, the maybe, you know, great exercise is just put it, put a flowchart together of the customer journey where you're going through the redemption process or going through the customer service process. And I know we're kind of griping about customer service, but it's because as a cardholder, that's what I experience really is, when something goes wrong. I'm… That's kind of h- my, my doorway into this, if not at the initial booking redemption process. But,
Rachel Satow: Yeah.
Brandon Giella: yeah, I, I think that's a, that's a great note, yeah
Rachel Satow: Yeah, document the, the current customer journey. And don't, I wouldn't do it just based on your interpretation of what the customer journey is.
Brandon Giella: Yeah
Ian Andersen: Mmhmm
Rachel Satow: to discover whether or not there are things you don't know about, because that's
Ian Andersen: Right
Rachel Satow: something that could
Brandon Giella: That's right
Rachel Satow: you are going through the redemption process yourself for, and, and, you know, doing everything the way a cardholder would, then you're n- there are potentially things in the trust chain that you don't even know about that having conversations with your current cardholders could really, could really give you insight into it as you build out that customer journey to document it
Ian Andersen: Yeah. Do not plan on best case scenarios, right?
Brandon Giella: Yes.
Ian Andersen: know
Brandon Giella: Plan, plan on each one of these links in the trust chain to fail at one point or another for whatever godforsaken reason, 'cause it's gonna happen. yeah, no, I, I think that's a, that's a brilliant note. Well, thank you guys so much. Rachel, I know you're, you're just kinda spearheading this, this project, this topic, and, and I, I love that you guys are creating these kinda assets for financial institutions because it is so important for them to be able to see the full picture and how this relates to the end cardholder's perspective. So thank you for putting these resources together, and we will see you on the next episode
Rachel Satow: Thanks, Brandon
Ian Andersen: See ya.
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