Listen on your favorite app
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
Welcome to Travel Buddy
In episode 27 of the Travel Buddy podcast, Rachel Satow is joined by Ian Andersen and Ashley Martinez to explore how organizations can better engage and retain their workforce amid rising turnover and shifting employee expectations. They discuss key drivers of disengagement, trends like wellness tourism, and how travel rewards are becoming an essential part of modern employee benefits.
Key Highlights
- Why low unemployment and high turnover are reshaping corporate loyalty
- What engagement really means—and the cost of disengaged employees
- The link between unclear career paths and quiet quitting
- How wellness and travel intersect to support work-life balance
- The role of AI in enabling personalized rewards and smarter engagement strategies
Quotes
- “It’s an estimated roughly $2 trillion of productivity is lost in the US every year to disengaged employees.” – Ian Andersen
- “We believe here at Switchfly, and I do personally as well, that travel and wellness go hand in hand.” – Ashley Martinez
- “We've seen around 86% of HR leaders saying that career paths for their employees are unclear within the organization, which is super interesting when you compare that to the idea of [active] employee disengagement.” – Rachel Satow
Transcript
Rachel Satow: [00:00:00] Hi, and welcome back to another episode of Travel Buddy by Switchfly This is episode 27, and today we are joined by Ian and Ashley. How are we doing today, guys?
Ian Andersen: Hey Rachel. Doing good.
Rachel Satow: Awesome. So today we're going to be talking a little bit about employee retention strategies and how travel rewards can really help your rewards and recognition program.
So to kind of dive into this, let's do a quick overview of some of the challenges that the HR world is facing with employee retention.
Ashley, do you wanna kick us off?
Ashley Martinez: Yeah. I found it really interesting, and this is top of mind coming from Loyalty Expo last week, one of the main topics of conversation was how there's really high turnover rates. And so when you think about that. Corporate loyalty, in their challenges in employee retention, apparently unemployment is at an all time, low.
It's at a 50 year low, which is amazing on one hand, but it presents a challenge in the corporate retention space. So in a very competitive job market. So that was one of the hot topics coming up, loyalty expo. So this is very timely. This podcast in our topic of discussion today.
Ian Andersen: I think it might be worth getting into what is employee engagement? Right? Essentially I think I was reading earlier that 32% of us employees, feel engaged at work. Right? So they are actively in their steps at work. And what that can look like is, spending a few less minutes, during a break, rushing back instead of checking their Twitter or email first thing back at the computer.
They're diving back into the project they're working on. It can be a little hard to define sometimes, and often it's just the employee themselves identifying themselves as engaged or not. Disengaged employees can be very damaging, the same report I was reading earlier, discussed that, it's an estimated roughly $2 trillion of productivity is lost in the US every year to disengaged employees. There's a few different types of disengagement. The first is sort of the, I think, quote-unquote, not engaged. So they're not actively disengaged, meaning they're not, searching for other jobs actively. They're not, spreading negative energy throughout the work culture, at the company.
And that's usually a pretty low percent that are actively disengaged. Around 16%. So between that 33 or 32 and 16% are the sort of not engaged. So they're the ones who, take a few extra minutes at break. They're, checking social media, [00:03:00] checking in with their friends, a little more often than they might otherwise.
So I think just kind of might be helpful to put some definitions around engagement.
Rachel Satow: Yeah, definitely. And when we think about the idea of employee engagement and employee retention, I think we also have to think about the counterpart of HR leaders. Some of the recent stats that we've seen are, around 86% of HR leaders are saying that. Career paths for their employees are unclear, within the organization, which is super interesting when you compare that to the idea of employee disengagement, or individuals who are, you know, that there was the idea of quiet quitting a couple of years back.
But it is interesting when you put those two statistics next to each other to see that there is such a high volume of HR leaders saying that there career paths for their employees are unclear. And then you also see the other side of it, which is as an employee, that disengagement or that [00:04:00] lack of fulfillment from, the company or the organization that you're working with.
Ian Andersen: That's a great point, Rachel. I think, one other thing to add to that is, the most often people are either not engaged or actively disengaged. One is the kind of undefined career path, but the most common is people don't actually know what's expected of them currently.
Right. And I think it's a bit of a catch 22 in that, especially post COVID, when we saw kind of the peak of employee engagement, there's been, quite a big productivity burst in the US definitely compared to the rest of the world. Between 21 and 2021 and 2024. Companies are expanding.
They're growing. We had such low unemployment rates, but. Often that means people are getting either promoted into jobs that they're not quite ready for. Or, new employees are being brought in without [00:05:00] somebody to fully train them.
You know, there's a lot of things that go into it and some of those things are secondary effects of company growth. If your company is growing, it can be easy to lose track of making sure people are trained properly, making sure, they know what to be working on.
So you might think, oh, everything's going great. We're growing. But really you're gonna start seeing dips in your employees being engaged unless you are. Keeping it at the top of your mind and making sure that you're kind of touching base with them.
Rachel Satow: Yeah, great point. One of the other things that we've talked about internally is, leading to employee expectations and the current state of the state when it comes to the job market. So, you know, going back to Ashley, your commentary regarding unemployment being at an all time low, that's also paired with.
Pretty high turnover rates. So the job market is definitely facing a little bit of [00:06:00] uncertainty. And when you pair that with the economic uncertainty that is existing, in 2025, it's leading to, you know, even if your company experienced vast growth a couple of years ago, you're now facing this potential for, you know, we've seen a lot of layoffs, we've seen a lot of voluntary attrition. That goes hand in hand with this idea of employee engagement and the disengagement that we've talked about, but also, the topic, that we're here to cover today of retention. So when we think about the economic standpoint of a lot of organizations paired with employees shifting, expectations for flexibility and career growth and some meaningful benefits, what are some things that you are seeing as solutions for the challenges that the world is facing today.
Ashley Martinez: Definitely. I mean, I think there's been a movement, just as you mentioned earlier, the movement of quiet, quitting. I think employers really need to listen to their employees and what are they seeking? [00:07:00] Obviously, everyone has a job for different reasons, whether that maybe it's financial security, they're getting fulfillment, they wanna achieve some level of autonomy, and I think the key to a strategic engagement program or retention is really listening to your employees.
What are your employees looking for? Is it rewards that allow them to be more flexible with their working environment? Is that a remote working environment, is that resources that allow them with their time off to do the things that they truly wanna do? Is it more, to that fulfillment aspect?
You know, I think that goes hand in hand with the engagement, making sure that they have a clear aligned career path, that they feel that they can bring their skillset to the table and they're making a difference within their organization. So there's a lot of different strategies to achieve.
This one, obviously here at Switchfly would, we more align on the travel reward side where you can really engage your employee base by giving them rewards that they actually want and allowing [00:08:00] to get them that autonomy to, on their time off, do the things that they want to do.
So I think, you know, we've been, the forefront of really listening to employees and, creating a product that gives them what they really want.
Ian Andersen: I think, this, like probably what, five to eight years stretch between say, 2019 and 2026. 2027 is going to be a gold mine for research on employee statistics. Just the wild extremes we've seen, during and post COVID. Now, like Rachel mentioned, there's a little bit more economic uncertainty it's a very strange moment because, it's still in the future, right?
The impacts of some of the things going on in the world haven't totally bitten yet. [00:09:00] And so there's still a bit of a holding their breath moment, that you're starting to see with some of the jobs reports coming out and some of the economic indicators coming out, but really only just the very tip of it.
I do, I am curious, like 10 years from now, sociologists and psychologists are gonna be just kinda mining this timeframe for. For a lot of these, 'cause like, you know, at peak COVI, I kind of brushed on it earlier, but was, you saw the highest, employee engagement statistics we've seen, in a long time.
I think honestly, since they really started tracking that metric. And it seems a little counterintuitive, right? Like we're in the middle of a global pandemic. A lot of people were getting laid off, a lot of people were having to really adjust their work, habits and schedules and whatnot.
But, that's been one of the more kind of fascinating things that have gone on the past few years. And to [00:10:00] kind of piggyback on that, the rise of remote work culture, because, we saw this explosion in remote and hybrid work during, and after, the pandemic.
And that is then faced something of a backlash, right? And now we're kind of getting a backlash to the backlash where, so many of those companies that were forced to have their employees work remotely were super skeptical of it while it was going on. Forced their employees to come back in, but then realized they did get a lot of benefits out of it.
Right. So now I think we're starting to kind of zero in what this kind of remote work, hybrid life is gonna look like. And honestly, the best engaged employees, the most engagement are coming out of the people who work remotely. They're at like, you know, 10, 12% higher [00:11:00] than employees forced to work in an office.
And hybrid is kind of somewhere right in the middle. So it is a still a fascinating time for employee statistics all around. That said, it's not always the most fun to live in. Very fascinating and interesting times, right? But, that uncertainty can cause a lot of issues. So I think Ashley's absolutely right of, connecting with your employees, figuring out what their wants, their needs, their passions, desires are both in and out of the office.
And then doing everything you can to kind of. Within your power to mold, your company to what the employees want. There's a term in the military that's used a lot, called servant leadership, right? And the idea of being a servant leader is that, you know, your employees aren't there to make you better. You are there to make them better. Right? [00:12:00] And by doing that, everybody gets better. The more you can engage with your employees, the more you can give them the kinds of recognition, the kinds of rewards, all of that stuff that they need. The training, the feedback, unfortunately, we can't say, do this tomorrow, and all of your employees are gonna be engaged, right? It is a holistic strategy and travel has shown to be a major portion of that. And definitely somewhere that we feel we can contribute very positively to the space. But it really is a holistic, culture at your company.
Rachel Satow: Yeah, it's, and especially coming from the perspective of an employee, we are all employees at Switchfly as well, so I know we see both sides of it, or really all three sides of it from the third-party perspective. As far as retention strategies go, we've talked about career growth, how your rewards and recognition programs, you can offer more benefits.
We've touched on the work life balance aspect and that idea of hybrid work. Over the last [00:13:00] couple of years as post pandemic life has changed. The interesting thing that I'm seeing with that in particular is that remote work is now being seen as a benefit and lesser so as a requirement from that pandemic lifestyle.
And with the RTO orders that are coming through, we're really seeing a surge in individuals moving towards freelance or entrepreneurial. Opportunities solely because they are really looking for that freedom and, the connection with their organizations that they're working for and with. So knowing all of that and knowing as well, Ashley, maybe this will be a good topic for you to touch on, that since employee expectations have changed for that flexibility and wanting to be able to really capitalize on their time outside of the office.
Why don't we talk a little bit about the surge in wellness tourism and how it comes into play here.
Ashley Martinez: Absolutely. You know, my favorite topic. So wellness tourism is definitely a growing trend [00:14:00] in corporate benefits. Similar to reward and recognition is compensation beyond salary. And we believe here at Switchfly, and I do personally as well, that travel and wellness go hand in hand. It's that regeneration, rejuvenation, that r and r that you can get outside the office, but also in the office as well.
When you think about what motivates you and what do you look forward to, you could be looking forward to a trip or are you looking forward to, maybe. Wellness can also, there's, physical aspects of that as well. Maybe you're looking forward to even that workout after work, right?
You know, a wellness benefit is potentially a company subsidizing a gym membership for you, right? Something that mentally, physically, helps your wellbeing. As we've discussed, employees value experiences over traditional material things. So that's where wellness benefits really come to play and travel is at the forefront of that wellness ecosystem.
Rachel Satow: That's great. One of the other things [00:15:00] that we typically talk about when we think about wellness tourism, and how it comes into play with your employees is this idea of employee branding. So your employer branding, and why companies would potentially want to invest. In adding travel benefits to their systems.
Do we want to touch a little bit more on that?
Ashley Martinez: Yeah, absolutely. From a revenue perspective, how travel can be a job, not only is it a great benefit for an employee, but also for the employer and can drive, revenue for the company. So a mutually win-win for both an employee and an employer. So not only giving your employee what they want, what they're looking for, but also driving revenue for the company itself through travel bookings.
Rachel Satow: Yeah, absolutely. So what do we see as the future of employee retention and engagement? What are some of the trends that, you know, Ian you mentioned this, this timeframe really through 2027 is in [00:16:00] flux. But what are we seeing as what is currently in place versus what we should expect over the next three to five years?
Ian Andersen: So I think that's a little up in the air at the moment. I do think that, I mean. I know we keep coming to it. Travel. When I started at Switchfly three plus years ago, I could hardly find, statistics regarding travel in the employee reward space. It was definitely very new.
People had always thought of it in the customer loyalty, aspect, but never really in the employee rewards, space. Since we've, gotten engaged with some of the bigger, PEOs and HR tech, brands, we've seen this explosion not only at Switchfly, but just kind of across the industry.
Travel is clearly, trending. I don't see that tapering off at all. I think trying to find smarter ways to engage [00:17:00] employees is going to be very important for employers over the next few years. I think especially with a lot of the new, tools at our disposal, technologically, we can come to some of those conclusions a little faster than before and maybe, be able to spotlight. As employees go from engaged to disengaged.
Back to engaged, because it's not a set in stone thing, right? We can begin to track what changes are occurring in the company that is causing, some of that bouncing between engagement and disengagement. So there, I believe will be a kind of heightened focus on it.
Is it solely, money, right? Are people feeling underpaid? That's always a major reason for disengagement. But not the only reason by any means, and not even the most common one. Often it, you know, things like rewards, like recognition, training. I mean, everything goes into it.
So I think. The [00:18:00] trend will be a heightened focus on the types of things that do make employees either engaged or disengaged. And the ability to actually really dive in at almost real time to figure out what a company can do, to make those changes.
Rachel Satow: No, I think we're dancing around the idea of it, talking about technology, but specifically what I think you're referring to is the use of ai and we wouldn't be talking about the future if we didn't bring up the use of AI in platforms. Do we want to chat a little bit more about that?
Ashley Martinez: Yeah. Ian, you blew my mind when you said that stat that it was what, 2 trillion loss from disengaged.
Ian Andersen: Yep. Yearly.
Ashley Martinez: That is so fascinating to me, but I also think employers should also be wary. There's another side of this. So with the rise of productivity tools and of course ai, if now employees can achieve, let's say.
What would take them eight hours [00:19:00] of work and maybe five hours of work so that additional three hours, you know, how are we classifying that? Is that time that we're giving back to our employees now that we have efficient and productive tools? Or is that time that we're saying, okay, well they should just be doing more.
How do does that factor in the work life balance of we're expecting more because we have these amazing productivity. Tools that make work more efficient. But I do also, think where's that balance of the expectation now of how we evaluate these tools in the workplace, and the real expectation of productivity.
So I think there's another. Side of that as well of, these amazing role of technology tools and how they play and also the effects as Ian, as you said, there'll be a lot of research coming out of this time of productivity, but also, the mental effects of that as well.
Ian Andersen: That's an excellent point, Ashley. It's one that we've seen kind of over and over historically—Rachel and Ashley are keenly aware of my historical [00:20:00] nerdiness and how much I love, little weird anecdotes. When the cotton gin was first, invented and introduced, Eli Whitney thought that it would give, employees more time, for themselves, right?
They could be more productive and finished work earlier and that it would really bring you know, this is centuries before the idea of work life balance, but that's kind of what he was driving at, that it would be better for the employees when in fact all it did is mean they could work more land in the same time.
Right? So Ashley, that's a great point of if I can do in five hours, what would take me eight even. A year or two years ago, what do I do? You know, and it's something that every company is gonna have to tackle kind of individually, right? Is that gonna drive salaries down because, maybe the employer only expects you to work those five [00:21:00] hours.
Is it going to increase your workload? These are all questions that are still yet to be answered, and there is probably no single answer to any of it. So I think it's probably something either company by company and sometimes even employee by employee, companies are gonna have to kind of figure out, and if they're not figuring it out, if I complete my work in five hours yet.
Still have to stick around the office for eight, you know, and say you're already not that engaged or in kind of that bubble zone, you know, that sort of lost productivity number, is going to, there's just gonna go up, right? Instead of down, which I think AI tools.
Can really are supposed to help is us be more productive. But there's a lot of ways to kind of get around and beyond productive using it. So yeah, it's interesting and really fun if you're a kinda math nerd and statistics nerd [00:22:00] like me, so.
Rachel Satow: Yeah, and to your point regarding, how employees are utilizing ai, there is also the other side of it where, when we think about the idea of retention and employee engagement, you can utilize these tools to help provide a more personalized experience. Yes, you may be offering travel rewards to every single one of your employees as a benefit, but now it also can feel tailored to them because of these tools.
So while there is this idea of AI coming in to help cut down on the manual labor that is going into their day-to-day and maybe increase productivity from that aspect, you also have the opportunity to utilize these tools to increase productivity and engagement even further by offering more personalized benefits for them.
Ian Andersen: That's a great point, Rachel. It's not. Something I necessarily thought of, but Ashley was talking about earlier with wellness travel report after report. I read talks about the health benefits, [00:23:00] especially the mental health benefits of travel, something as simple as a three day weekend getaway can have a, like a extremely impactful lift for employees of just unplugging, getting outta the office and not thinking about anything but being on the beach for three days. With some AI tools in HR tech, you know, being able you're in a big organization and you're not necessarily keeping track of what everybody's doing on their downtime.
You know, being able to highlight those employees and be like, give them a nudge of. Hey, when's the last time you left? I mean, we all work at home. There are times where I barely leave the house for weeks on end, you know? Being able to kind of check in with those employees and say like, Hey, extra rewards.
Here's a plane ticket, here's, some movie tickets, whatever. Get outta the house. Go unplug your brain. Go do something else. Right. And I think that'll be very [00:24:00] helpful for employers.
Rachel Satow: Any final thoughts on employee retention engagement strategies for employers to be able to really tap into their workforce.
Ashley Martinez: Yeah, I think when done right companies have to invest in employee satisfaction. I think that leads a stat that the employee satisfaction leads to attend to 20 increase in productivity. I think one of the best strategies to do that is, is one, obviously listening to your employees and seeing really what, they're looking for in their engagement.
As we noted, this can change from employee to Plum employee. Obviously the changes from company to company. And one of the, I think, most effective ways to engage employers as with travel rewards, as Ian said, even just three day long extended weekend vacation. I think the beauty of travel is that there is the excitement of looking forward to a trip.
There's the actual trip and then the post trip reflection of getting to tell your friends, your coworkers about the trip and memories that you'll have for a lifetime. [00:25:00] whether it's travel or when you think about how you're designing your engagement strategy is, listening to your employees, but what do they want and what is something that's going to, fulfill their needs, not just in the moment, but long term.
Ian Andersen: Yeah, definitely. I think just the focus on understanding your employees. It seems like there's more of a focus over the past couple years, maybe a couple decades of these generation gaps of the sort of cultural mindset between the different generations.
And one thing that's abundantly clear is millennials and especially Gen Z value, travel value, work-life balance so much more than previous generations, right? To the point where, they're taking reduced salaries, which is not. Something we've ever really seen. You know, people almost always [00:26:00] historically have, when you have the opportunity, you take a higher salary at the expense of virtually any other benefit.
But that's starting to shift, right? And people are taking lower salaries for companies that offer them the work life. That they expect, right? Whether it's working remotely or extended vacation un you know, unlimited vacation time or, whatever that may be. So recognizing your workforce and what kinds of things motivate them —money and travel and recognition, those are always big three ones. So Switchfly's definitely well positioned, I think.
Rachel Satow: Well, Ian Ashley, thank you so much for joining me today. Join us next time for episode 28 and I hope you all have a fantastic rest of your day.
Ian Andersen: Thanks, Rachel.
Ashley Martinez: Thanks for having us, Rachel.
[00:27:00]
