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Welcome to Travel Buddy
In this episode of the Travel Buddy Podcast, hosts Rachel Satow and Ian Andersen have an in-depth discussion on the power of gamification in the travel industry. The conversation explores the evolution of gamification, from its surprising historical roots to its modern applications across loyalty programs and on-the-ground travel experiences. With engaging real-world examples and practical advice, this episode reveals how tapping into human motivation through creative gamification can enhance traveler engagement and drive real business results. Tune in to discover how blending digital and physical touchpoints can transform both customer and employee journeys. *Chapters* (00:01) Origins and Evolution of Gamification (02:28) Motivators Behind Gamification in Travel (05:31) Real-World Examples and Digital Blending (10:26) Stimulus-Reward and Business Applications (15:30) Classic Campaigns and Revenue Impact (20:17) Creating Seamless, Human-Centered Journeys (22:26) Practical Implementation and Strategic Takeaways *Continue your journey* The History of Gamification - https://www.switchfly.com/blog/history-of-gamification Gamification in Travel - https://www.switchfly.com/blog/gamification-in-travel Engaging and Retaining Customers in the Travel Industry with Gamification - https://www.switchfly.com/blog/engaging-and-retaining-customers-in-the-travel-industry-with-gamification *Connect with Switchfly* Website: https://www.switchfly.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/switchfly/ X: https://twitter.com/switchfly YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@SwitchflyOfficial
Transcript
[00:00:09] Brandon Giella:
Hello and welcome to another episode of The Travel Buddy podcast presented by Switch Fly. Today we are gonna be talking about gamification, but before you swipe away, uh, let's take a deeper look at gamification because it is still very, very important and very valuable. Even so many years later, after this topic really gained steam in the mid 2010s, and especially when it comes to travel.
[00:00:36] And especially in person physical, on the ground travel, it still has a very valuable role to play. So we're gonna get into all of that. And I have, as, uh, always we have Rachel Ow and Ian Anderson joining the show. today we are gonna be talking about a little bit of the history of gamification and much more about how to combine gamification with in-person experiences before, during, and after our travel experience. uh, as we get started here, we have, um. Gamification as a, I guess a strategy, if you will, has been around for 150, maybe 200 years. Uh, you guys have a great blog post about this called The Evolution of Gamification. Go check it out@switchfly.com. And this blog post talks about how in the 1820s there was a game that was set up essentially, uh, to create. Um, uh, basically get more engagement from the users. And then that turned into coupons and turned into a lot of other modes of gamification. And then when you had, uh, really powerful big data and cloud computing in the 2010s, you saw this take shape in new ways that developed into HR technology, rewards and recognition, engagement technology.
[00:01:54] And we see this proliferating throughout a lot of aspects of the economy. So. That's kind of a, a very, very brief history. We have other episodes on that, so go, go take a listen to those. But I want to hear, uh, from your perspective, Rachel, tell me a little bit about your perspective of gamification briefly as you're seeing it, and then how you've got these three, um, uh, I guess modes in the travel experience with pre-trip, during trip and post trip. How, uh. Gamification can blend physical and digital worlds. So with that set up, take us away a little bit. Rachel. Tell us, tell us what you're thinking. Mm-hmm.
[00:02:32] Rachel Satow:
Yeah, for sure, for sure. You gave a great overview of the blog. You know, I. This has been such a fun topic to research just for most of our content, but also for, you know, thinking of ways that loyalty programs can really, you know, expand their design philosophies. Um. It. Going back to what you had mentioned about, you know, this idea of gamification really starting in the 18 hundreds with the Game Creeks bill, uh, which was that tactical military game, and, you know, it, it really became a structured learning program for, um, the driving, the, the design and engagement and performance of. You know, individuals in the military in the 18 hundreds, which is kind of crazy to think about that those, those principles still apply today. Um, but one of the things that, I. Uh, just wanna hammer home is it doesn't matter the evolution that it is undergone. The reason gamification works is because it's rooted in our intrinsic behaviors and our motivators.
[00:03:29] So if you think about things like achievement. Rewarding curiosity. Those are all things that satisfy this like element of human desire. Um, and that's why the idea of gamification, I don't think will ever really go away. It'll just transform as technology and data transforms. Um. To answer your second part about how we're really seeing it from a travel perspective, I think there's always going to be a way to create this loop From a, a loyalty perspective.
[00:03:58] You're, you're thinking about how can you tap into, specifically for travel, that pre-trip engagement, the. During trip engagement and then the post trip engagement that all kind of stemmed together. So when you're thinking about gamification and how it can be applied for, for travel, you know, there's plenty of opportunities from a research perspective to tap into the idea of engagement and utilize, you know, what certain search queries are people utilizing on your platform that you know.
[00:04:29] You can have them, you know, do certain planning elements and perhaps throw a couple hundred points here and there. Um, and then actually on the trip you have all of that data, all of that first party data that you have received from their bookings, you know, where they're staying, you know the certain areas they're going to be in, if they have any activities that they've, they've got planned. You can always prompt. During their trip. Some, you know, visit this or check in here to, to get a badge or to get, uh, you know, some, some additional points here and there. And the idea behind that really is how can you take the inherently digital idea of gamification that we know today and. Tap into how they are actually traveling and, and certain things that would enhance the trip, not detract from it.
[00:05:26] Brandon Giella:
That's right. That's right. So, uh, you have mentioned there's an example, and I wanna bring a, an example in like in, into the conversation because it's not just theory. It's not just like, oh, this sounds really great, you know, based on research because it is actually something that's very effective. And you mentioned the Visit Norway app. Can you tell us about that? I think that's such a great example.
[00:05:47] Rachel Satow:
Yeah. So Visit Norway has an app called, uh, fairytale Finder, and it is a, an app that is geared towards families, but it essentially creates routes and games for travelers who are exploring Norway to find hidden gems throughout the country. Um, and it's, it's a really cool example of how, you know. We have these little machines in our pockets. And when you are going, you know, on these really elaborate trips, how can, how can organizations, you know, utilize the technology that they have at their fingertips to, encourage more engagement, both with a digital aspect, but also with, you know. These beautiful places that individuals are traveling to. So the Visit Norway app and the the Fairytale Finder was a pretty cool example of like, it's, you know, catching trolls in the backseat of the car. And then when you stop at this, you know, beautiful overlook or whatever it may be, this destination, um, you know, you're, you're tying the experience altogether, both from a digital perspective and then what you're seeing in the real world.
[00:06:53] Brandon Giella:
that's so cool. And I, so there's other examples. So we were talking about this before we started recording, um, because again, you know, gamification has been a topic for. plus years at least in the, the kind of tech world that we're all in. Um, but it, it still has a, a very valuable role to play.
[00:07:10] And so there's a couple of of small examples about this. One is, there's this, um, support platform that I've been using lately. It's called Fernan get fernan.com, and it's got these, what they call psychological levers. uh, one of them is called Hicks Law, where it's, you look at one thing at a time. So as you're going through support tickets, you see only one at a time.
[00:07:30] And it says That alone reduces the anxiety of being like really overwhelmed by stuff. And then there's a, uh, a welcome screen that shows you how many tickets are available and how many time, how long it takes to get to inbox zero. And that psychological lever is called progressive disclosure. And then they've got another one that says, um, progress to inbox zero. And so the psychological lever there is the goal gradient effect, which basically says how much time or, or basically how much progress you're making so you don't get overwhelmed. those are just very small examples that show like if you just have these small delights in the experience, you can actually really improve, uh, the, the kind of overall experience where you're just gamifying these little things.
[00:08:15] And I will say, I am not a sucker for these kind of things, and I love these little delights. And so, um, and you, you, Rachel, when we were, uh, talking about this before, you mentioned Clickup being another example where you're like, you're gamified into your project management and you're, it, it like activates your competitive nature, which I think is awesome.
[00:08:32] Rachel Satow:
Yeah, yeah. Um, shout out to Clickup for, you know, making me wanna be competitive and earning a little badge on my profile. But, um, yeah, to, to your point, like I think we're, we're tapping into gamification is all about tapping into these intrinsic behavioral cues that, you know, as much as we. to say that we are not, we are not, uh, ones to fall for certain things.
[00:08:59] Like they always come back. Something's, you just have to find the right thing to, to get people engaged in, in this. But, um, yeah, I, I love the, the app call out that you had.
[00:09:10] Brandon Giella:
we also, we talked about, um, Google Maps,
[00:09:13] Rachel Satow:
Mm-hmm.
[00:09:13] Brandon Giella:
get notifications about my reviews from years ago, and it says like, you're a, you know, local guide, you know, for my area. Um, and then there's Pokemon Go. We talked about Pokemon Go. That still. Okay. So this was launched in 2016. It was like ar very sophisticated technology at the time, now less sophisticated.
[00:09:32] You can, you can do this more easily now, but there's still tens of millions of users on Pokemon Go generating millions and millions and millions of dollars, um, of revenue. it's just, it's, it's like still a thing that's still really powerful and I think there's a lot of ways that, um, you guys talk about bringing that into the travel experience. Um, so with that. there ways that you can see either switch, fly data or some of your clients maybe, or just some real world examples in, um, in the travel space where gamification is still really, um, is still happening that you think is really valuable?
[00:09:50] Ian Andersen:
Yeah. Uh, I think gamification, right? It, it, just to backtrack a little, but I'll answer your question very, very indirectly. Uh, the, the. It's, it's not a new idea, right? Like, I mean you mentioned that that blog post we wrote a while back. Um, and I think even since then, depending on how exactly you wanna classify, you could go back even farther, right?
[00:10:01] Like of, of, uh, all gamification is, is trying to excite that reward stimulus reward center in your brain, right? It's the reason why. Over a third of all app downloads on, on, uh, phones are games. Um, there, there's something evolutionary in us that, that enjoys those sort of quick rewards for, um, uh, for, you know, completing a, a certain.
[00:10:30] Uh, so I think especially with airlines, there's a, uh, there's a lot of different ways to take advantage of that. Um, you know, Rachel brought up the, the visit Norway that, you know, it's not specifically airline, but travel in general. Um, my how old are Miles programs, right? Those are a form of gamification, right?
[00:10:49] There are several different ways you can do that. You can do it as, uh, uh, an actual way to, um, to sell product right to, to, to. Uh, to give people either physical or, or digital, um, rewards for, for completing certain things. I know, uh, I have a, uh, uh, airline credit card that, uh, depending on my spending tier, I get, you know, um, not only the, the miles, but like, uh, access to the lounges or drink, you know, drink up, uh, upgrades on the on, on flight.
[00:11:22] Um, and then there's also. The, the other way of just sort of the bragging rights, right? That it's not necessarily something you're giving, giving away. Uh, it is. How many different apps do we have that have some sort of badge? Uh, for the random one, um, I listen to a ton of audio books. I mean, that's, I don't really listen to a lot of music.
[00:11:46] It's mostly just audio books. So I've had Audible for over 10 years and, uh. They have these badges on, you know, if you do certain things, um, you know, you get these badges and some of them are crazy. Like some of them you have to specifically try to get right. Like, uh, listen for 3D to three different books for, you know, 10 minutes each in one day, or, you know, just something like that.
[00:12:12] Like some sort of random thing. You're not necessarily. Gonna get if you're just using the product. But, uh, you, you have to try to get it. And, and what that's doing for, uh, the customer, for, for the user is, is creating that sense of reward. Rewarding those badges is getting you to engage more. And what it's doing for the company is, um, maybe I only engage with this product in one very specific way and they're trying to bri, uh, broaden my.
[00:12:41] My engagement, you know, show me different features, uh, make me use it in a way I wouldn't normally use it, uh, to, to then hopefully expand, uh, the what I use it for, right? So, um, as far as as Switch fly, you know, we are a travel platform. We, we offer, uh, our customers a, a, a space for their customers and users and employees and, uh, whatever, uh, to.
[00:13:06] A, uh, purchase travel through, um, and we work directly with our customers to develop certain kinds of programs, whether it's marketing, um, a way to, to, you know, package certain features together, whatever. And all of that stuff can be used in gamification because like I said, all at the end of the day, all it is, is, is, is, uh, stimulus response, right.
[00:13:29] Brandon Giella:
Hmm.
[00:13:30] Ian Andersen:
Anything can be a game. Like how many emails do you, you could send a marketing email. I, I'm not sure I would do this, but I mean, theoretically you could, you could send a marketing email that says something like, the person that opens the most marketing emails over the next month is gonna win, uh, $500 travel credit.
[00:13:50] Or, you know, just something like, you could literally do it with anything. So they can be very simple like that, or they can be much more complex. Um, like some of the other examples that you and Rachel had mentioned?
[00:14:03] Brandon Giella:
Or, or like the Monopoly game. You mentioned that
[00:14:05] Ian Andersen:
Oh, my favorite, my favorite. I, I do think it is the epitome of, of product gamification, right? I mean, I, I remember as a kid, I, I am, I am an elder millennial, so I don't know how many pe people listening are my age or older, but, uh. I remember begging my parents to go to McDonald's, so during like the Monopoly game stuff, and I had my little board, you know, and I'd peel it off and stick 'em on there, and they never stuck very well.
[00:14:34] So my mom would have to like scotch tape 'em down and, um, it, it was, and, and as a kid I had no idea what McDonald's was doing. I thought it was a fun game, right. Um, and I think most people don't. Necessarily think of it as gamification per se, that that example or others, they think of it as, as, you know, they understand that this company's trying to get me to engage with them to buy their product or whatever.
[00:14:58] But like, I don't think they necessarily think about the gamification side of things. Right. And, and for me it was just like a cool thing McDonald's was doing and I wanted to go get some more Monopoly tickets and or, you know, stickers. And I knew like. If I got the medium soda and the large McNuggets, or like I, I knew as like a eight, 9-year-old kid how to maximize the amount of tickets I could get or, you know, monopoly pieces I could get for a certain amount of money.
[00:15:32] Um, and all that stuff just is for a relatively simple idea. Uh, I'm sure just an incredible boost in ROI.
[00:15:41] Brandon Giella:
Yeah, I was about to say, so I don't know the details of this, and I think that ended up being a kind of like a legal battle and a
[00:15:48] Ian Andersen:
Yeah. Yeah. It might not have ended so well. Yes. Follow through with your gamification. If you promise something, make sure you give it to 'em. Yeah.
[00:15:55] Brandon Giella:
Yes. But, um, but the point, and this is where we're going with all this, obviously, uh, the point of it is that I, I would love to see like a baseline study of like, what was their revenue? Pre Monopoly game and then during Monopoly game, like what was the increase or the alpha, you could say, in revenue that they drove because of that game. Or like the Oval teen game in a Christmas story. Or like Beanie Babies turning their, their collecting the, the animals into a game. Like by just creating this kind of design and thinking through how you could activate that competitive spirit. most people, I think almost all humans except for me. Have that competitive spirit, uh, you can really activate that, like drive to collect all these things or, or you know, do the, like, visit Norway. I gotta, you know, I gotta collect all the trolls on my, on my trip. I'm gonna go probably, I bet they could, they could show you some data on this that people are going to these different sites that they otherwise would not have gone to if it weren't for this game. And I think your contention is, if I'm understanding right, is you can do that with. All kinds of data that the Switch Fly platform can provide, uh, as well as just different creative uses around the trip experience before, during, and after, and create this kind of like enormous drive in revenue or ROI because of these kind of mechanics that are underlying in the human psychology.
[00:17:22] Rachel Satow:
Yeah, and I, I think, um, a, a stat that is pretty commonly used in loyalty, um, is just increasing engagement. By about 5% can raise profits anywhere from 25-95 So the investment in driving engagement through gamification or through other, other outlets is so important because it, it truly does, you know, back to, to. From a revenue perspective, and it generates that, that value valuable first party data that we're talking about that can be used for on ground, but also in digital experiences. Um. Uh, as like reinforcement loops. So you're definitely, gamification is, is definitely a design philosophy. And to Ian's point is follow through if you're gonna implement it. Uh, for sure. Um, but all of that to be said, you know, yes, there is an, uh, certainly an ROI on on the investment there and, and one of the other things that I think we're talking about is we've. Provided tons of examples, both from a solely digital perspective, but also a solely on ground perspective. And one of the things that is unique to travel is there's the opportunity for this blended gamification where you have digital touch points throughout the traveler journey.
[00:18:43] But then there is the actual trip itself and I, you know. One of the things that, you know, this blend that we're talking about, it's not just about earning badges on your phone because there is that real life el element to the actual trip. It's, it's about extending the sense of, of progress and reward and the intrinsic human behaviors that gamification into in the real journey that that is. You know, happening as a part of the traveler journey. Um, and you know, travelers, we talk about this quite often. Travelers expect continuity between all of the touch points. And if your gamification in your system can apply that continuity utilizing the data gathered by from bookings search, et cetera, um, you have a real opportunity to to enhance. The full journey and create that, that continuous loop.
[00:19:42] Brandon Giella:
Yeah. Yeah. And I think if I could, uh, push that point a little bit further and, and say almost like a challenge to folks, uh, wanting to implement one of these programs is to really. Think through how it's valuable to the user. I think that's what some of these gamification kind of get lost in that.
[00:20:00] Like, oh, we could just put this like counter on this thing, or we can do this, you know, kind of like representation of this game, but. think what's really important and what makes these things stick and what makes 'em valuable is making it to where it actually does enhance the user's journey through whatever it is.
[00:20:17] Whether, you know, buying cheeseburgers or going to visit Norway or, you know, whatever it, it, how does it actually make it their, you know, purchase decisions are their experience better? And, and of course tied directly into like your. You know, core offering, it's, it's not easy to do, but I think if you do do it well, it can be super, super valuable.
[00:20:38] As we've, we've kind of shown some examples.
[00:20:41] Ian Andersen:
Uh, I think, uh, I totally agree with all that. I think though it's possible to overthink sometimes as well. I mean, obviously a, something like the, uh, Rachel's Norway example or, or Monopoly at McDonald's or whatever those are. Extremely intensive, right? That took a lot of work.
[00:20:59] Um, you know, totally redesigning, uh, uh, product, uh, packaging, you know, marketing, all that stuff. I think there's, there's that side of it that, that you could absolutely go, um, kind of top board if you're, if you're, you know, selling whatever and, and, and you want to encourage, uh, additional buying. Uh, additional purchasing, um, in that method, I think, uh, you absolutely need, um, to really think through the details of the game.
[00:21:26] Is it using, uh, your product, um, how you want it to be used? Is it, is it encouraging users to use it more often or to maybe change your behavior and use it in a different way? Um, however, I think there's a flip side to where, uh. You don't have to be so intensive with it all the time. Right? If, if, um, my, my, my silly example earlier of, of opening, you know, all the AR marketing emails this month that come out or whatever, like you can do very simple stuff, uh, to increase, uh, small engagement.
[00:22:01] I think, um, one thing you see a lot of different travel companies do. Uh, and not just travel companies, things like gyms or spas or stuff or, you know, hey, tag our, our, uh, tag a, a, a, our I, whatever. I'm blanking on the, the Instagram hand, you know, tag our Instagram handle on your picture when you were here and, you know, we'll randomly pick somebody to give 500 bucks or, or whatever.
[00:22:30] Like you see that stuff all the time. And that stuff's really easy to do, right? That costs you almost nothing except, uh, a little bit of marketing time and whatever your prize is gonna be.
[00:22:41] Brandon Giella:
true.
[00:22:41] Ian Andersen:
Um, um, there are examples of gamification that, uh, will, that can be very, um, subtle and, and easy and have a, a really heck of a lot of, of ROI.
[00:22:56] Um. You know, for, for pretty basic, simple, simple outputs. So,
[00:22:59] Brandon Giella:
Hmm,
[00:23:00] Ian Andersen:
um, I know Rachel, back in a previous life, we worked, uh, uh, at a marketing agency, uh, and one of the clients was that, that did the awning, like were the canopies, like sold canopies for restaurants or, or whatever, patios. And I remember, you know, doing simple stuff like that with them, right.
[00:23:22] With, um, you know, tag, tag your photo of your, your patio with our, our canopies and, uh, you know, win some reward or, or whatever. Um, that stuff does drive a lot of engagement for really cheap and really simple, simple outputs. So I don't think, I don't think people need to, to worry about, uh, you know, jumping straight to that top level.
[00:23:45] Right? You can. You can start simple, see what works. See, especially depending on the product type, you know, very different things are gonna gonna play. Um, and then, you know, just, uh, if, if listen to your customers, you know, if, if, uh, it's not getting good engagement, well try a different, different way of, of gamifying, uh, your website or your product.
[00:24:07] Um, I think that's always important and. Something that gets lost most often is people need to listen to, uh, listen to their customers. You know, it's the best feedback you're gonna get about any product, any marketing campaign, any, anything is uh, are people actually buying?
[00:24:24] Brandon Giella:
Yeah, no, that's a great point. That's a great point. Maybe a, maybe a heuristic is, you know, start, what is the simple. Like obvious thing that we can do, like, you know, some of your examples or like fernand, that support tool that all they did on one of those things for that, that psychological lever was just add a progress bar at the top of the screen and it just make, it just helps your brain understand like, okay, I can get to the end of this.
[00:24:47] And it helps you, know, um, helps you get through it without, with less anxiety. so it's like simple to like complex maybe is one heuristic and the other is. Um, digital to physical or digital to like, on the ground. And then another one would be just kind of the time, which would be before, during, and after a trip.
[00:25:05] And maybe with those three, uh, uh, uh, kind of, I don't know what you would call 'em, like a heuristic or schematic or something with those principles, maybe that would help organize, like, okay, where could I apply some effort to really improve some engagement? So, okay, so what. is there anything else that a customer or a listener, um, thinking through, you know, okay, maybe I could apply gamification.
[00:25:32] When I'm thinking about travel, I'm thinking about my, you know, uh, improving the experience from my users. Uh, is there anything else that they should take away when thinking about gamification and this kind of blended model that we're talking about?
[00:25:43] Rachel Satow:
Yeah, I, I mean, to touch on what you and Ian just both talked through. I think, you know, in a world where loyalty can often equate to how much you spend, especially from, from the user, consumer side, um, being creative with how the mechanics are deployed, either you know, through tagging on Instagram or you know. A couple po, a hundred points thrown for completing reviews after, after booking, et cetera. It ga at its core, gamification just helps make loyalty, feel human again. Um, and you know, you want to ensure that as you are considering, you know, implementing any of these things, whether it be a low cost option or you know, to the nines developing a whole app, you know that you are. Doing it from a place where you want to be re rewarding curiosity and celebrating progress and enhancing the experience overall. Not distracting from it or distracting from, you know, what someone would be, would be doing on their trip, etc So that's my takeaway is like you can spend. All you want on, on implementing these principles, but sometimes it is the smaller, the smaller, um, opportunities for just deploying these mechanics that, you know, make your product, make your organization feel more human.
[00:27:11] Brandon Giella:
Mm. I love that. I love that.
[00:27:14] Ian Andersen:
Yeah, and I think that, uh, maybe just remember that it can work in, in all avenues of business as far as like. Think about it, not from the game backwards, but from what you're trying to achieve to, you know, in developing the game. So like if you have a product that is underselling compared to some of your other products, maybe tying some sort of, of a gamified, um, approach to, to marketing that product, uh, might be a good, good option.
[00:27:47] Right? So, um. You can use it to mold, uh, prospect and customer behavior, uh, to, to what you're actually trying to do, right? Or whether it's, um, I mentioned Audible that, uh, part of the, some of the, the badges where making me go into parts of the app that I wouldn't necessarily do on my own. Right. Um, and that I didn't know were there.
[00:28:09] Uh, and that was the whole point of it, right? Was to just make me aware of some of that stuff. So, so I think don't try to think of like, think about it from, you know, um, kind of the wrong direction. Use it to, to really advance your business goals first,
[00:28:27] Brandon Giella:
Hm.
[00:28:28] Ian Andersen:
and, and drive that, that user behavior or customer behavior.
[00:28:31] And, uh, I think that's when it'll be the most effective.
[00:28:35] Brandon Giella:
Hmm. So if I could summarize this conversation in one sentence, I could say gamification is an important tool in your strategy toolkit for your business.
[00:28:47] Ian Andersen:
Yeah, yeah. It's not gonna replace your marketing, it's not gonna replace your prospecting or, or sales or anything like that. It's, it's gonna just enhance your, your overall efforts and whether that's just simple, um. Brand awareness all the way to, to, uh, you know, increasing, like directly increasing revenue.
[00:29:07] Um, whatever your product goals are or your, your business, uh, sales goals are. I think gamification could play a part of it, but it, it's not gonna replace anything. Um, but it's, uh, it's just a fun, a fun tool. It's fun for, uh, you to develop and, and think through. And it's also fun, you know, for the, the users.
[00:29:25] Brandon Giella:
that's right. That's right. And has real business impact as well if you
[00:29:28] Ian Andersen:
Exactly.
[00:29:29] Brandon Giella:
So again, little ways, big ways. Digital ways, physical ways, and there's, uh, before, during, and after a trip when you're thinking about it. Maybe that's a helpful framework for, thinking through how to, how to put gamification into your, into your services. Well, guys, this is so helpful. Thank you. Uh, I know we talked about gamification before, but I, I love this, this kind of way that you guys are thinking about it, uh, along the, you know, the, the during, and after the trip and kind of blending it in the physical and digital and then, uh, giving us a, a little bit of history and examples on gamification used well, and I think, again, it's really important. Component of your overall strategy as a business. So, um, I'd love to hear what folks think of, uh, maybe implementing this in their business and using data in important ways. I know switch fly. You guys have great data to provide to folks that are thinking about designing these tools. And so, uh, I can't wait to hear how it goes, uh, with different customers trying their hand at it. So thank you again and we will see you next time.
[00:30:27] Ian Andersen:
Thanks Brandon.
[00:30:28] Rachel Satow:
Brandon.
